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舊 2012-07-05, 02:16 AM   #1
Blake
滑雪瘋2級
 
註冊日期: 2012-05-21
文章: 54
預設 Blake's mogul skiing

Hi everyone!

I noticed on my youtube statistics that my videos have been embedded here a few times so I thought I would stop by and say 'Hi'. Special thanks to Norman for setting up my account. I don't speak chinese so I don't know how much I can contribute here, but I am happy to post in English. I love travelling in Asia. My wife and I went to Thailand and Cambodia last year. I have a video of it on my youtube channel.

Here are some of my videos, one or two of these have been posted on here already, if anyone has any questions about my technique I'll be happy to answer the best I can:

2012 High Level Mogul Skiing and Steep Skiing - YouTube


2011 Mogul Skiing and Technical Terrain Skiing in Colorado - YouTube


此篇文章於 2012-09-21 10:28 AM 被 Blake 編輯。
Blake 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-07-06, 11:15 PM   #2
taichiskiing
滑雪瘋7級
 
註冊日期: 2009-02-07
文章: 3,756
預設 回覆: Hello from Blake Saunders

引用:
作者: Blake 查看文章
Hi everyone!

I noticed on my youtube statistics that my videos have been embedded here a few times so I thought I would stop by and say 'Hi'. Special thanks to Norman for setting up my account. I don't speak chinese so I don't know how much I can contribute here, but I am happy to post in English. I love travelling in Asia. My wife and I went to Thailand and Cambodia last year. I have a video of it on my youtube channel.

Here are some of my videos, one or two of these have been posted on here already, if anyone has any questions about my technique I'll be happy to answer the best I can:
2012 High Level Mogul Skiing and Steep Skiing モーグル - YouTube


2011 Mogul Skiing and Technical Terrain Skiing in Colorado - YouTube



Hi Blake,

Those are some great mogul skiing there; you do have some exciting techniques and skiing, and I'm really enjoying watching them.

Thanks for stopping by, and welcome to our forum. Maybe I feed you in a bit what we here are all about; we here is a small forum for a few enthusiatic Chinese skiers, mainly originally from Taiwan and HongKong, most of them are lurkers, and only a few posters posting, so don't be disappointed if no body responds to you or asking questions, they may not know better [to ask questions] as well as they are shy. Nevertheless, we do have a few PSIA and CSIA certified instructors posting here, and they'll be able to converse with you in English as well, just give them sometime to warm up.

As for me, I'm a Taichi skier, known on the 'net as "taichiskiing," though we ski differently, (though I used to ski nothing but moguls in my younger days, but I don't have my knees and your kind of vigorness anymore,) I'll be glad to converse with you with any skiing related subjects, as skiing is not just my passions but also my life; I'm living South Lake Tahoe, and ski at Heavenly mostly.

Taichi Skiing: a Taichi Skier's profile - YouTube



Once again, thanks for stopping by, and welcome to our forum.

:)
IS
taichiskiing 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-07-07, 05:22 PM   #3
norman
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註冊日期: 2008-09-24
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預設 回覆: Hello from Blake Saunders

Hi Blake:

Great mogul skiing.

I have two questions, please.

1. How do you use legs to Absorption on bumps or moguls?

Are you first to Jump or hop than pull legs back?

Or to squat than pull legs back?

Or no Jump/hop/squat, only pull legs back on bumps or moguls?

Or other way?

2. What is your opinion that only use thigh muscle can pull legs back or not only use thigh muscle?
__________________
目前總滑天數74天。繼續累積中...我想滑雪。

滑雪人
norman 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-07-13, 11:33 AM   #4
Blake
滑雪瘋2級
 
註冊日期: 2012-05-21
文章: 54
預設 回覆: Hello from Blake Saunders

Norman asked in his post to explain my way of absorbing...

I have been translating this forum on google, it's not perfect, but I can basically understand everything.

I'll start with a basic explanation and then add my own conclusions about absorption after the first paragraph.
I wish we could have this translated by a professional translator or something. I've written the best explanation
of absorption that I can, I just hope it won't be too hard to understand since I'm writing in English.


The way to absorb moguls is to bring your knees up towards your chest as your feet hit them. On the uphill side
of the moguls, your feet need to be slightly out in front of you so that your skis can point up the mogul then on
the downhill side of the mogul your skis need to point down the mogul, which means your feet need to be curled
back towards your butt as you straighten your legs. In between moguls your skis point level (parallel to the
steepness of the ground under the moguls) and down the hill while your body is straight... and on top of the mogul
your skis should reach a point where they are also level and parallel to the steepness of the ground under the
moguls and your body is low, bent at the knees. --The motion of your legs will be like you're pedaling a bicycle
backwards.


If you keep your legs directly under you while you absorb, instead of doing a more circular motion like pedaling a
bike, then what happens is that the resistance of the ski (the stiffness of it) knocks your weight back on the uphill
side of the mogul (then possibly also forward on the downhill side). Your skis will also not stay on the snow if you
don't point them up the fronts and down the backs of moguls, unless they are as flexible as a well cooked noodle.


It's really important to bend at your knees and NOT at your hips. As your butt gets lower while you absorb, you
should not bend the angle of your back forward any more than you have to. In other words, don't let your shoulders
move forward any more than you have to. So how much do you have to? --The minimum amount necessary in order
to not have your weight too far back. The lower you need to absorb, the farther forward the angle of your back
will have to go in order to not have your weight too far back, but always move your back forward the minimum amount
necessary. Absorb mainly with your knees. If you have the angle of your back more forward than it has to be, then
you will not be able to absorb well. Your upper body will get in the way of the motion of your legs.


Your weight needs to be centered, NOT forward like most people say. If you are forward, you will smack your ski tips
and your feet into the moguls and you will not be balanced or smooth. You should also not be too far back with your
weight. Being too far back or forward also messes up the angles of your body. You have to be centered.


How low you need to absorb is determined by the size of the mogul. The amount your feet should be brought up should
be equal to the size of the mogul. A lot of mogul skiers have their skis come off of the ground between moguls. This
can happen for three reasons. Either the mogul skier is absorbing too slowly (he is bringing his feet up too slowly for
the speed he is skiing at) or his timing is off, or he is not absorbing deep enough. The cause of this bouncing could
also be all three reasons (bad timing, slow absorption and shallow absorption together). The faster you ski, the faster
you will need to bring your feet up on the uphill sides of moguls and the faster you'll have to push them down on the
downhill side in order to not come off the ground. It's best to stay on the ground so that you can be smoother. All
mogul skiers try to stay on the ground, but it's not easy at high speeds. You should never jump onto moguls. The
motion of your absorption should be more like pulling up your feet instead of squatting down or lowering your butt.
Imagine hanging from your arms on a pull-up bar and pulling your knees up, instead of doing squats. At high speeds you
pull your feet up and let the mogul pass under you. Your legs straighten when the mogul has passed and is no longer
under you. At lower speeds it's a little more like lowering your butt, at higher speeds it's more like pulling your feet up.


Try to hit the moguls as lightly as possible. Try to not make any noise when you hit them. Most skiers can't do it
quietly, but it's good to try.


Always do what feels natural and balanced, and keep your hands in front of you.

Thanks to everyone for all the replies : ) I will be back to talk more when I have more time. I have been extremely busy
lately. I actually wrote this post at work.
Blake 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-07-13, 02:51 PM   #5
norman
滑雪瘋鑽石級
 
norman 的頭像
 
註冊日期: 2008-09-24
文章: 10,576
發送 MSN 訊息給 norman 發送 Skype™ 訊息給 norman
預設 回覆: Hello from Blake Saunders

引用:
作者: Blake 查看文章
Norman asked in his post to explain my way of absorbing...

I have been translating this forum on google, it's not perfect, but I can basically understand everything.

I'll start with a basic explanation and then add my own conclusions about absorption after the first paragraph.
I wish we could have this translated by a professional translator or something. I've written the best explanation
of absorption that I can, I just hope it won't be too hard to understand since I'm writing in English.


The way to absorb moguls is to bring your knees up towards your chest as your feet hit them. On the uphill side
of the moguls, your feet need to be slightly out in front of you so that your skis can point up the mogul then on
the downhill side of the mogul your skis need to point down the mogul, which means your feet need to be curled
back towards your butt as you straighten your legs. In between moguls your skis point level (parallel to the
steepness of the ground under the moguls) and down the hill while your body is straight... and on top of the mogul
your skis should reach a point where they are also level and parallel to the steepness of the ground under the
moguls and your body is low, bent at the knees. --The motion of your legs will be like you're pedaling a bicycle backwards.


If you keep your legs directly under you while you absorb, instead of doing a more circular motion like pedaling a
bike, then what happens is that the resistance of the ski (the stiffness of it) knocks your weight back on the uphill
side of the mogul (then possibly also forward on the downhill side). Your skis will also not stay on the snow if you
don't point them up the fronts and down the backs of moguls, unless they are as flexible as a well cooked noodle.


It's really important to bend at your knees and NOT at your hips. As your butt gets lower while you absorb, you
should not bend the angle of your back forward any more than you have to. In other words, don't let your shoulders
move forward any more than you have to. So how much do you have to? --The minimum amount necessary in order
to not have your weight too far back. The lower you need to absorb, the farther forward the angle of your back
will have to go in order to not have your weight too far back, but always move your back forward the minimum amount
necessary. Absorb mainly with your knees. If you have the angle of your back more forward than it has to be, then
you will not be able to absorb well. Your upper body will get in the way of the motion of your legs.


Your weight needs to be centered, NOT forward like most people say. If you are forward, you will smack your ski tips
and your feet into the moguls and you will not be balanced or smooth. You should also not be too far back with your
weight. Being too far back or forward also messes up the angles of your body. You have to be centered.


How low you need to absorb is determined by the size of the mogul. The amount your feet should be brought up should
be equal to the size of the mogul.
A lot of mogul skiers have their skis come off of the ground between moguls. This
can happen for three reasons. Either the mogul skier is absorbing too slowly (he is bringing his feet up too slowly for
the speed he is skiing at) or his timing is off, or he is not absorbing deep enough. The cause of this bouncing could
also be all three reasons (bad timing, slow absorption and shallow absorption together).
The faster you ski, the faster
you will need to bring your feet up on the uphill sides of moguls and the faster you'll have to push them down on the
downhill side in order to not come off the ground. It's best to stay on the ground so that you can be smoother. All
mogul skiers try to stay on the ground, but it's not easy at high speeds. You should never jump onto moguls. The
motion of your absorption should be more like pulling up your feet instead of squatting down or lowering your butt.

Imagine hanging from your arms on a pull-up bar and pulling your knees up, instead of doing squats. At high speeds you
pull your feet up and let the mogul pass under you. Your legs straighten when the mogul has passed and is no longer
under you. At lower speeds it's a little more like lowering your butt, at higher speeds it's more like pulling your feet up.


Try to hit the moguls as lightly as possible. Try to not make any noise when you hit them. Most skiers can't do it
quietly, but it's good to try.


Always do what feels natural and balanced, and keep your hands in front of you.

Thanks to everyone for all the replies : ) I will be back to talk more when I have more time. I have been extremely busy
lately. I actually wrote this post at work.
Hi Blake:

Thank your real very well point and explain your way of absorbing.

I use green color point out some sentence. I hope you do not mind.
__________________
目前總滑天數74天。繼續累積中...我想滑雪。

滑雪人
norman 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-07-14, 12:41 PM   #6
pku
滑雪瘋7級
 
註冊日期: 2010-05-30
文章: 3,576
預設 回覆: Hello from Blake Saunders

引用:
作者: Blake 查看文章
Norman asked in his post to explain my way of absorbing...

I have been translating this forum on google, it's not perfect, but I can basically understand everything.

I'll start with a basic explanation and then add my own conclusions about absorption after the first paragraph.
I wish we could have this translated by a professional translator or something. I've written the best explanation
of absorption that I can, I just hope it won't be too hard to understand since I'm writing in English.


The way to absorb moguls is to bring your knees up towards your chest as your feet hit them. On the uphill side
of the moguls, your feet need to be slightly out in front of you so that your skis can point up the mogul then on
the downhill side of the mogul your skis need to point down the mogul, which means your feet need to be curled
back towards your butt as you straighten your legs. In between moguls your skis point level (parallel to the
steepness of the ground under the moguls) and down the hill while your body is straight... and on top of the mogul
your skis should reach a point where they are also level and parallel to the steepness of the ground under the
moguls and your body is low, bent at the knees. --The motion of your legs will be like you're pedaling a bicycle
backwards.


If you keep your legs directly under you while you absorb, instead of doing a more circular motion like pedaling a
bike, then what happens is that the resistance of the ski (the stiffness of it) knocks your weight back on the uphill
side of the mogul (then possibly also forward on the downhill side). Your skis will also not stay on the snow if you
don't point them up the fronts and down the backs of moguls, unless they are as flexible as a well cooked noodle.


It's really important to bend at your knees and NOT at your hips. As your butt gets lower while you absorb, you
should not bend the angle of your back forward any more than you have to. In other words, don't let your shoulders
move forward any more than you have to. So how much do you have to? --The minimum amount necessary in order
to not have your weight too far back. The lower you need to absorb, the farther forward the angle of your back
will have to go in order to not have your weight too far back, but always move your back forward the minimum amount
necessary. Absorb mainly with your knees. If you have the angle of your back more forward than it has to be, then
you will not be able to absorb well. Your upper body will get in the way of the motion of your legs.


Your weight needs to be centered, NOT forward like most people say. If you are forward, you will smack your ski tips
and your feet into the moguls and you will not be balanced or smooth. You should also not be too far back with your
weight. Being too far back or forward also messes up the angles of your body. You have to be centered.


How low you need to absorb is determined by the size of the mogul. The amount your feet should be brought up should
be equal to the size of the mogul. A lot of mogul skiers have their skis come off of the ground between moguls. This
can happen for three reasons. Either the mogul skier is absorbing too slowly (he is bringing his feet up too slowly for
the speed he is skiing at) or his timing is off, or he is not absorbing deep enough. The cause of this bouncing could
also be all three reasons (bad timing, slow absorption and shallow absorption together). The faster you ski, the faster
you will need to bring your feet up on the uphill sides of moguls and the faster you'll have to push them down on the
downhill side in order to not come off the ground. It's best to stay on the ground so that you can be smoother. All
mogul skiers try to stay on the ground, but it's not easy at high speeds. You should never jump onto moguls. The
motion of your absorption should be more like pulling up your feet instead of squatting down or lowering your butt.
Imagine hanging from your arms on a pull-up bar and pulling your knees up, instead of doing squats. At high speeds you
pull your feet up and let the mogul pass under you. Your legs straighten when the mogul has passed and is no longer
under you. At lower speeds it's a little more like lowering your butt, at higher speeds it's more like pulling your feet up.


Try to hit the moguls as lightly as possible. Try to not make any noise when you hit them. Most skiers can't do it
quietly, but it's good to try.


Always do what feels natural and balanced, and keep your hands in front of you.

Thanks to everyone for all the replies : ) I will be back to talk more when I have more time. I have been extremely busy
lately. I actually wrote this post at work.
Thanks for your detail explanation.

You are a very good mogul skier. the way you ski the moguls is more like the freestyle way. It seems to me you have a freestyle moguls training background. When you ski off the moguls, you ski more rounder turn, not the freestyle short turn.

Don't you think it's harder to ski rounder turn on the moguls with more edging ( engage the edge earlier ) . It seems to me there is more people skiing very good on the moguls using the freestyle way but very few people can ski the bumps well using the technical way ( earlier edge , round turn but fast close to the freestyle mogul skiers )

There are very few people can ski like the following people, please have patience to watch the whole video since some of them are still using straight skis especially the first guy.

Technical Bumps Moguls Skiing - YouTube

pku 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-07-14, 11:11 PM   #7
taichiskiing
滑雪瘋7級
 
註冊日期: 2009-02-07
文章: 3,756
預設 回覆: Hello from Blake Saunders

引用:
作者: Blake 查看文章
Norman asked in his post to explain my way of absorbing...

I have been translating this forum on google, it's not perfect, but I can basically understand everything.

I'll start with a basic explanation and then add my own conclusions about absorption after the first paragraph.
I wish we could have this translated by a professional translator or something. I've written the best explanation
of absorption that I can, I just hope it won't be too hard to understand since I'm writing in English.
Thanks for the detailed explanations; they are well written and quite accurate. Maybe it is a good thing that you don't understand Chinese; the Chinese posting in this thread really nothing more than pointless bitch-fights, I was afraid that you might be leaving in disgust. Thanks for coming back.

引用:
The way to absorb moguls is to bring your knees up towards your chest as your feet hit them. On the uphill side
of the moguls, your feet need to be slightly out in front of you so that your skis can point up the mogul then on
the downhill side of the mogul your skis need to point down the mogul, which means your feet need to be curled
back towards your butt as you straighten your legs. In between moguls your skis point level (parallel to the
steepness of the ground under the moguls) and down the hill while your body is straight... and on top of the mogul
your skis should reach a point where they are also level and parallel to the steepness of the ground under the
moguls and your body is low, bent at the knees. --The motion of your legs will be like you're pedaling a bicycle
backwards.
You are talking about "zipper-line" mogul techniques of course. Maybe I rephrase them a bit to straighten my understanding, while you use "bent at the knees" to absorb the "shocks" when you hit the uphill side of the mogul and straighten the knees somewhat on the downhill side, it appears that you also flex your ankles on the uphill side of the mogul and extend your ankles on the downhill side of the mogul so to keep the skis' contact on the snow to maintain a constant pressure and to the control of the speed, back pedaling a bicycle it is, well said, so there is no argument there. The contention on this board/forum is "how" to "bring your knees up." Could you explain that? (I've said pulling the thigh muscles to bring the knees/feet up, but Norman said it's not (but he wouldn't say how, he has said that is his "secret," to cover what he cannot answer/cannot do, so we call him BS.)

引用:
If you keep your legs directly under you while you absorb, instead of doing a more circular motion like pedaling a
bike, then what happens is that the resistance of the ski (the stiffness of it) knocks your weight back on the uphill
side of the mogul (then possibly also forward on the downhill side). Your skis will also not stay on the snow if you don't point them up the fronts and down the backs of moguls, unless they are as flexible as a well cooked noodle.
The way I see the "absorption" is to reduce the "weight"/pressure that put on the feet/skis. There are two ways to achieve that: 1) the way you do it is what most people called "zipper-line" mogul technique—shorten the distant between the weight/butt and the feet, where "bent knees" reduce the pressure on the feet and straighten the knees to increase the pressure on the feet—and 2) reducing the skis' pressure by skiing a longer distant—a curvier path—so-called "dynamic short turns," which I do. "Flat-skiing," keeping the skis parallel to the slope (as you termed "parallel to the steepness of the ground under the moguls" and to the snow, is what I've called "Flatboarding,"

Taichi Skiing/Flatboarding: mogul - YouTube



I think that zipper-line mogul technique is more technical as well as dynamic and elegant way to ski the moguls, but dynamic short turns are easier, thus less exhausting.

引用:
It's really important to bend at your knees and NOT at your hips. As your butt gets lower while you absorb, you
should not bend the angle of your back forward any more than you have to. In other words, don't let your shoulders
move forward any more than you have to. So how much do you have to? --The minimum amount necessary in order
to not have your weight too far back. The lower you need to absorb, the farther forward the angle of your back
will have to go in order to not have your weight too far back, but always move your back forward the minimum amount
necessary. Absorb mainly with your knees. If you have the angle of your back more forward than it has to be, then
you will not be able to absorb well. Your upper body will get in the way of the motion of your legs.

Your weight needs to be centered, NOT forward like most people say. If you are forward, you will smack your ski tips and your feet into the moguls and you will not be balanced or smooth. You should also not be too far back with your weight. Being too far back or forward also messes up the angles of your body. You have to be centered.
In other words, keep the upper body "straight"/upright and as "quiet" as possible, yes. Glad that you still have your "knees," mine can only barely support my weight now, so I use my weight as center, i.e. I move my weight first to maintain balance.

引用:
How low you need to absorb is determined by the size of the mogul. The amount your feet should be brought up should
be equal to the size of the mogul. A lot of mogul skiers have their skis come off of the ground between moguls. This can happen for three reasons. Either the mogul skier is absorbing too slowly (he is bringing his feet up too slowly for the speed he is skiing at) or his timing is off, or he is not absorbing deep enough. The cause of this bouncing could also be all three reasons (bad timing, slow absorption and shallow absorption together). The faster you ski, the faster you will need to bring your feet up on the uphill sides of moguls and the faster you'll have to push them down on the downhill side in order to not come off the ground. It's best to stay on the ground so that you can be smoother. All mogul skiers try to stay on the ground, but it's not easy at high speeds. You should never jump onto moguls.
Well said, but as you said, "it's not easy at high speeds," sometimes jumping off the ground is unavoidable at the high speeds, so learn how to "land" is also a crucial part mogul skiing, as well as skidding to brake.

引用:
The motion of your absorption should be more like pulling up your feet instead of squatting down or lowering your butt.
Well said, this statement answers the question "how to bring your knees up" above.

引用:
Imagine hanging from your arms on a pull-up bar and pulling your knees up, instead of doing squats. At high speeds you
pull your feet up and let the mogul pass under you. Your legs straighten when the mogul has passed and is no longer
under you. At lower speeds it's a little more like lowering your butt, at higher speeds it's more like pulling your feet up.
Norman, this paragraph should answer your question about your La-Ti/拉提, as well as what the second person does on the pull-up bar.

收腳練習.wmv - YouTube



引用:
Try to hit the moguls as lightly as possible. Try to not make any noise when you hit them. Most skiers can't do it
quietly, but it's good to try.

Always do what feels natural and balanced, and keep your hands in front of you.

Thanks to everyone for all the replies : ) I will be back to talk more when I have more time. I have been extremely busy lately. I actually wrote this post at work.
Thanks again for the explanations, no rush, but do please come back soon.

:)
IS
taichiskiing 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-07-15, 09:42 AM   #8
Blake
滑雪瘋2級
 
註冊日期: 2012-05-21
文章: 54
預設 回覆: Hello from Blake Saunders

I think that what I said about how to absorb is true both in zipperlines and out of them.
It's even true if you are skiing groomed or trees and hit just one bump.

From pku: Don't you think it's harder to ski rounder turn on the moguls with more edging ( engage the edge earlier ) .

No. I want to be very clear about this. The answer is No.

I have heard a lot of arguments about this kind of thing ever since I started
getting online. A lot of people try to say that it is harder to ski outside of a line
than in one, or that rounder turns are harder than turns made in a line. These
ideas are completely wrong. I had never heard anyone say these things until I
started getting online. The people who say these things are not very good skiers.
If they were good skiers, they would know that what they are saying is not true.
If they were truly good skiers, they would not think that skiing outside of a line
or making rounder turns is as difficult as they say it is. The fact that they
think it's so difficult to make round turns, or to ski outside of a line proves that
they lack skiing ability. They wouldn't say this if they had a lot of skiing ability.
I think that a lot of people that say these things are just trying to argue to
convince people that they are great skiers when they are not.

Whenever I teach a beginner mogul skier, they have usually learned to ski moguls
outside of a zipperline first before I start teaching them. I have to work with
them to get them to be able to ski in a line. Skiing outside of a line (which
involves rounder turns) is step one. Step two is skiing in a line.

The truth about this question is that in most cases if a skier is bad outside of a
line then that skier will probably also ski bad in one. But if a skier is bad in a line
it is possible that the skier could still ski good out of one (or with round turns in
the moguls). A skier that can ski good out of a line but not ski good in one is a
lot more common than a skier who is good in a line but not good out of one.
Therefore, skiing in a line is harder. I can ski with round turns out of lines or in
lines or whatever… the style I show in my videos is the most difficult and that is
why it is in my videos.

Skiing outside of a line and skiing with round turns in the moguls is kind of the
same thing. That is why I am explaining this in the way I am.

To be truly great in the moguls, you have to be able to make other kinds of turns well
outside of the moguls. The opposite is not true though. Olympic racers like Lindsay
Vonn do not need to be able to ski moguls well in order to be good racers. Usually
racers cannot ski bump lines.

If you look at the video you posted, several times in the video the skier stops
making round turns and starts skiing in the zipperline. When the skier does that
his skis do not stay on the snow. He is bouncing a lot. So his round turns are
better than his zipperline turns. He's also not very good at round turns though
because he can't even stay on the snow while he's making them. The guys are
usually not very smooth no matter what shape of turn they're making.

I think these guys are basically skiing the zipperline anyway... the round shape
of their turns is because they are on weird shaped, long moguls. These moguls
are really big and spread out. If I was on moguls that shape, my turns would
be longer and rounder too, because of the shape of the bumps.
Technical Bumps Moguls Skiing - YouTube


From pku It seems to me there is more people skiing very good on the moguls using the freestyle way but very few people can ski the bumps well using the technical way ( earlier edge , round turn but fast close to the freestyle mogul skiers )
I think most people don't want to learn to ski like those guys in the video above because
they don't like the way it looks as much as the freestyle way. I think less people
are doing it just because less people are interested in doing it that way. I am not sure if
there are a lot of people doing it the freestyle way, but I will say this... Machine-made
moguls should not count as moguls in my opinion. If you are talking about freestyle skiers
who ski machine-made moguls, I do not think that they are mogul skiers at all because
I think moguls cannot be machine-made if they are supposed to count as moguls.

--The way to pull up your feet in the moguls is to use your abdominals like the video of the guy with his feet hanging in the gym.
Blake 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-07-15, 02:23 PM   #9
norman
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預設 回覆: Hello from Blake Saunders

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作者: Blake 查看文章
I think that what I said about how to absorb is true both in zipperlines and out of them.
It's even true if you are skiing groomed or trees and hit just one bump.

From pku: Don't you think it's harder to ski rounder turn on the moguls with more edging ( engage the edge earlier ) .

No. I want to be very clear about this. The answer is No.

I have heard a lot of arguments about this kind of thing ever since I started
getting online. A lot of people try to say that it is harder to ski outside of a line
than in one, or that rounder turns are harder than turns made in a line. These
ideas are completely wrong. I had never heard anyone say these things until I
started getting online. The people who say these things are not very good skiers.
If they were good skiers, they would know that what they are saying is not true.
If they were truly good skiers, they would not think that skiing outside of a line
or making rounder turns is as difficult as they say it is. The fact that they
think it's so difficult to make round turns, or to ski outside of a line proves that
they lack skiing ability. They wouldn't say this if they had a lot of skiing ability.
I think that a lot of people that say these things are just trying to argue to
convince people that they are great skiers when they are not.

Whenever I teach a beginner mogul skier, they have usually learned to ski moguls
outside of a zipperline first before I start teaching them. I have to work with
them to get them to be able to ski in a line. Skiing outside of a line (which
involves rounder turns) is step one. Step two is skiing in a line.

The truth about this question is that in most cases if a skier is bad outside of a
line then that skier will probably also ski bad in one. But if a skier is bad in a line
it is possible that the skier could still ski good out of one (or with round turns in
the moguls). A skier that can ski good out of a line but not ski good in one is a
lot more common than a skier who is good in a line but not good out of one.
Therefore, skiing in a line is harder. I can ski with round turns out of lines or in
lines or whatever… the style I show in my videos is the most difficult and that is
why it is in my videos.


Skiing outside of a line and skiing with round turns in the moguls is kind of the
same thing. That is why I am explaining this in the way I am.

To be truly great in the moguls, you have to be able to make other kinds of turns well
outside of the moguls. The opposite is not true though. Olympic racers like Lindsay
Vonn do not need to be able to ski moguls well in order to be good racers. Usually
racers cannot ski bump lines.

If you look at the video you posted, several times in the video the skier stops
making round turns and starts skiing in the zipperline. When the skier does that
his skis do not stay on the snow. He is bouncing a lot. So his round turns are
better than his zipperline turns. He's also not very good at round turns though
because he can't even stay on the snow while he's making them. The guys are
usually not very smooth no matter what shape of turn they're making.

I think these guys are basically skiing the zipperline anyway... the round shape
of their turns is because they are on weird shaped, long moguls. These moguls
are really big and spread out. If I was on moguls that shape, my turns would
be longer and rounder too, because of the shape of the bumps.
Technical Bumps Moguls Skiing - YouTube

From pku It seems to me there is more people skiing very good on the moguls using the freestyle way but very few people can ski the bumps well using the technical way ( earlier edge , round turn but fast close to the freestyle mogul skiers )
I think most people don't want to learn to ski like those guys in the video above because
they don't like the way it looks as much as the freestyle way. I think less people
are doing it just because less people are interested in doing it that way. I am not sure if
there are a lot of people doing it the freestyle way, but I will say this... Machine-made
moguls should not count as moguls in my opinion. If you are talking about freestyle skiers
who ski machine-made moguls, I do not think that they are mogul skiers at all because
I think moguls cannot be machine-made if they are supposed to count as moguls.

--The way to pull up your feet in the moguls is to use your abdominals like the video of the guy with his feet hanging in the gym.
Hi Blake:

Good clear answer.

One more questions for their.

How is your any feeling when you skiing on mogul fast down hill?

Are you easy tired of legs?

Or real relaxed and can ski on mogul very long way?

Or...?
__________________
目前總滑天數74天。繼續累積中...我想滑雪。

滑雪人
norman 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-07-15, 11:02 PM   #10
taichiskiing
滑雪瘋7級
 
註冊日期: 2009-02-07
文章: 3,756
預設 回覆: Hello from Blake Saunders

引用:
作者: Blake 查看文章

--The way to pull up your feet in the moguls is to use your abdominals like the video of the guy with his feet hanging in the gym.
Yes, using the abdomen muscles is the correct "whole" body movement on moguls, however, abdomen muscles do not connect to the feet, so the questions remain open, how do you "pull up the feet," or "bring your knees up towards your chest"?

And do these photos look using the abdomen muscles to absorb, or "bring the knees up toward the chest" to you?





And do you think that this skier skis/absorbs like you?

收縮轉彎.mpg - YouTube



:)
IS
taichiskiing 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-07-19, 08:35 AM   #11
pku
滑雪瘋7級
 
註冊日期: 2010-05-30
文章: 3,576
預設 回覆: Hello from Blake Saunders

引用:
作者: Blake 查看文章
I think that what I said about how to absorb is true both in zipperlines and out of them.
It's even true if you are skiing groomed or trees and hit just one bump.

From pku: Don't you think it's harder to ski rounder turn on the moguls with more edging ( engage the edge earlier ) .

No. I want to be very clear about this. The answer is No.

I have heard a lot of arguments about this kind of thing ever since I started
getting online. A lot of people try to say that it is harder to ski outside of a line
than in one, or that rounder turns are harder than turns made in a line. These
ideas are completely wrong. I had never heard anyone say these things until I
started getting online. The people who say these things are not very good skiers.
If they were good skiers, they would know that what they are saying is not true.
If they were truly good skiers, they would not think that skiing outside of a line
or making rounder turns is as difficult as they say it is. The fact that they
think it's so difficult to make round turns, or to ski outside of a line proves that
they lack skiing ability. They wouldn't say this if they had a lot of skiing ability.
I think that a lot of people that say these things are just trying to argue to
convince people that they are great skiers when they are not.

Whenever I teach a beginner mogul skier, they have usually learned to ski moguls
outside of a zipperline first before I start teaching them. I have to work with
them to get them to be able to ski in a line. Skiing outside of a line (which
involves rounder turns) is step one. Step two is skiing in a line.

The truth about this question is that in most cases if a skier is bad outside of a
line then that skier will probably also ski bad in one. But if a skier is bad in a line
it is possible that the skier could still ski good out of one (or with round turns in
the moguls). A skier that can ski good out of a line but not ski good in one is a
lot more common than a skier who is good in a line but not good out of one.
Therefore, skiing in a line is harder. I can ski with round turns out of lines or in
lines or whatever… the style I show in my videos is the most difficult and that is
why it is in my videos.

Skiing outside of a line and skiing with round turns in the moguls is kind of the
same thing. That is why I am explaining this in the way I am.

To be truly great in the moguls, you have to be able to make other kinds of turns well
outside of the moguls. The opposite is not true though. Olympic racers like Lindsay
Vonn do not need to be able to ski moguls well in order to be good racers. Usually
racers cannot ski bump lines.

If you look at the video you posted, several times in the video the skier stops
making round turns and starts skiing in the zipperline. When the skier does that
his skis do not stay on the snow. He is bouncing a lot. So his round turns are
better than his zipperline turns. He's also not very good at round turns though
because he can't even stay on the snow while he's making them. The guys are
usually not very smooth no matter what shape of turn they're making.

I think these guys are basically skiing the zipperline anyway... the round shape
of their turns is because they are on weird shaped, long moguls. These moguls
are really big and spread out. If I was on moguls that shape, my turns would
be longer and rounder too, because of the shape of the bumps.
Technical Bumps Moguls Skiing - YouTube

From pku It seems to me there is more people skiing very good on the moguls using the freestyle way but very few people can ski the bumps well using the technical way ( earlier edge , round turn but fast close to the freestyle mogul skiers )
I think most people don't want to learn to ski like those guys in the video above because
they don't like the way it looks as much as the freestyle way. I think less people
are doing it just because less people are interested in doing it that way. I am not sure if
there are a lot of people doing it the freestyle way, but I will say this... Machine-made
moguls should not count as moguls in my opinion. If you are talking about freestyle skiers
who ski machine-made moguls, I do not think that they are mogul skiers at all because
I think moguls cannot be machine-made if they are supposed to count as moguls.

--The way to pull up your feet in the moguls is to use your abdominals like the video of the guy with his feet hanging in the gym.

I think you misunderstand my question or I didn't make it clear enough.

I am asking about the way of skiing, not the line of one chooses. As you said, some of the guys in the video still ski the zipper line. The main difference between you and them is they are always trying to be on edges and you are always on flat skis. They are skiing on arcs but you are more of a straight lines

The way those guys ski on the video is consider the technical way and they current and former demonstrators ( members in their country's demo team to attend the Interski events) of Japan and Austria.
pku 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-07-26, 01:51 PM   #12
taichiskiing
滑雪瘋7級
 
註冊日期: 2009-02-07
文章: 3,756
預設 回覆: Blake's mogul skiing

引用:
作者: norman 查看文章
「You should never jump onto moguls. The motion of your absorption should be more like pulling up your feet instead of squatting down or lowering your butt.」
Just because you can "copy&paste" Blake's words doesn't mean you know what is saying in what you've quoted. I'm not here to bash Blake just because you try to steal/ride on his words to boast about yourself; nevertheless, mogulists jump on the moguls all the times,

Moguls—Lines and Creativity on Vimeo



and the way they ski moguls are not any lesser than Blake's, and what Blake said "squatting down or lowering your butt" is not the same as your“不跳不蹲的收縮”/"no jumping no squatting absorption"; that's only your poor interpretations. What you've praised "straightlining down the mogul field",

收腳練習.wmv - YouTube



is not the same as Blake's "zipperline" mogul technique,

2012 High Level Mogul Skiing and Steep Skiing モーグル - YouTube



Compare to yourself, your are not even touching the perimeter.

收縮轉彎.mpg - YouTube



Your are only plagiarizing.

:)
IS
taichiskiing 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-07-26, 03:02 PM   #13
norman
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預設 回覆: Blake's mogul skiing

引用:
作者: taichiskiing 查看文章
Just because you can "copy&paste" Blake's words doesn't mean you know what is saying in what you've quoted. I'm not here to bash Blake just because you try to steal/ride on his words to boast about yourself; nevertheless, mogulists jump on the moguls all the times,

Moguls—Lines and Creativity on Vimeo


and the way they ski moguls are not any lesser than Blake's, and what Blake said "squatting down or lowering your butt" is not the same as your“不跳不蹲的收縮”/"no jumping no squatting absorption"; that's only your poor interpretations. What you've praised "straightlining down the mogul field",

收腳練習.wmv - YouTube


is not the same as Blake's "zipperline" mogul technique,

2012 High Level Mogul Skiing and Steep Skiing モーグル - YouTube


Compare to yourself, your are not even touching the perimeter.

收縮轉彎.mpg - YouTube


Your are only plagiarizing.

:)
IS
這裏沒有一段影片是你自己的,你想證明怎麼?

另外,Blake的方法跟Bob的方法是有一些差別的,你分不清楚又把Bob的影片放進來說,沒看到我都懶得去你發的另一個新討論串跟你講了。

簡單的說,在我的方法,下面這2段,確實是符合不蹲不跳的拉提收縮,你只是希望從Blake說出確定的答案而已。

你有哪一個動作是不蹲不跳的收縮動作?說來你更像是抄襲Bob跟Blake的影片來說自己會這個動作。

收縮轉彎.mpg - YouTube


拉提收縮雙腳的動作 - YouTube

__________________
目前總滑天數74天。繼續累積中...我想滑雪。

滑雪人
norman 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-07-27, 12:53 AM   #14
taichiskiing
滑雪瘋7級
 
註冊日期: 2009-02-07
文章: 3,756
預設 回覆: Blake's mogul skiing

引用:
作者: norman 查看文章
這裏沒有一段影片是你自己的,你想證明怎麼?
Bob's video is enough to prove that your "no jumping no squatting absorption" is not the "zipperline" mogul technique/"Avalement."

引用:
另外,Blake的方法跟Bob的方法是有一些差別的,你分不清楚又把Bob的影片放進來說,沒看到我都懶得去你發的另一個新討論串跟你講了。
Bob's video has covered larger area of "absorption," which includes Blake's method, so it covers yours as well. You don't participate discussing in my new thread is not because you don't bother with but you don't have enough knowledge to follow up, and don't dare to face your own inferior little knowledge.

引用:
簡單的說,在我的方法,下面這2段,確實是符合不蹲不跳的拉提收縮,你只是希望從Blake說出確定的答案而已。
No, Blake has never talked about his method is "no jumping no squatting absorption," as I've said in last post, that's only your inadequate interpretation to "gold-plate your own face." To say what you do in the following video clips like Blake's way of ski moguls is only your delusions.

引用:
你有哪一個動作是不蹲不跳的收縮動作?說來你更像是抄襲Bob跟Blake的影片來說自己會這個動作。
No, I didn't say I was doing the "zipperline" technique, nor "no jumping no squatting absorption," but simply "absorption." "No jumping no squatting absorption"/zipperline technique may be your "holy grail" but not mine; it is you who have said that you are doing the zipperline mogul technique as you try to prove in the following video clips, and you don't know that only prove you cannot do it, as well as you don't know what you're talking about.

收縮轉彎.mpg - YouTube



Guess this clip only Blake can answer whether or not your way of ski like his zipperline technique.

拉提收縮雙腳的動作 - YouTube



And no, that is not an "absorption" move, nor Blake's "bring your knees up toward your chest." Repeating your incomplete clips doesn't mean that it shows you know how to do "absorption," but only makes yourself a joke.

:)
IS

Ps. I'm writing this in English only so that Blake may read it (I thought it is the purpose why the admin01 separating this thread from the original for), so he is aware of what's going on here, if he bothers to return.
taichiskiing 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-07-27, 09:30 AM   #15
norman
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預設 回覆: Blake's mogul skiing

引用:
作者: taichiskiing 查看文章
Bob's video is enough to prove that your "no jumping no squatting absorption" is not the "zipperline" mogul technique/"Avalement."



Bob's video has covered larger area of "absorption," which includes Blake's method, so it covers yours as well. You don't participate discussing in my new thread is not because you don't bother with but you don't have enough knowledge to follow up, and don't dare to face your own inferior little knowledge.



No, Blake has never talked about his method is "no jumping no squatting absorption," as I've said in last post, that's only your inadequate interpretation to "gold-plate your own face." To say what you do in the following video clips like Blake's way of ski moguls is only your delusions.



No, I didn't say I was doing the "zipperline" technique, nor "no jumping no squatting absorption," but simply "absorption." "No jumping no squatting absorption"/zipperline technique may be your "holy grail" but not mine; it is you who have said that you are doing the zipperline mogul technique as you try to prove in the following video clips, and you don't know that only prove you cannot do it, as well as you don't know what you're talking about.

收縮轉彎.mpg - YouTube


Guess this clip only Blake can answer whether or not your way of ski like his zipperline technique.

拉提收縮雙腳的動作 - YouTube


And no, that is not an "absorption" move, nor Blake's "bring your knees up toward your chest." Repeating your incomplete clips doesn't mean that it shows you know how to do "absorption," but only makes yourself a joke.

:)
IS

Ps. I'm writing this in English only so that Blake may read it (I thought it is the purpose why the admin01 separating this thread from the original for), so he is aware of what's going on here, if he bothers to return.
我簡單回應,引用Blake說過的話回應你就好了。這裏是在討論Blake的方法,不是Bob的方法。

引用:
作者: Blake 查看文章
You should never jump onto moguls. The
motion of your absorption should be more like pulling up your feet instead of squatting down or lowering your butt.

Imagine hanging from your arms on a pull-up bar and pulling your knees up, instead of doing squats. At high speeds you
pull your feet up and let the mogul pass under you. Your legs straighten when the mogul has passed and is no longer
under you. At lower speeds it's a little more like lowering your butt, at higher speeds it's more like pulling your feet up.
__________________
目前總滑天數74天。繼續累積中...我想滑雪。

滑雪人
norman 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-07-27, 11:43 PM   #16
taichiskiing
滑雪瘋7級
 
註冊日期: 2009-02-07
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預設 回覆: Blake's mogul skiing

引用:
作者: norman 查看文章
我簡單回應,引用Blake說過的話回應你就好了。這裏是在討論Blake的方法,不是Bob的方法。

引用:
作者: Blake 查看文章
You should never jump onto moguls. The motion of your absorption should be more like pulling up your feet instead of squatting down or lowering your butt.
Imagine hanging from your arms on a pull-up bar and pulling your knees up, instead of doing squats. At high speeds you
pull your feet up and let the mogul pass under you. Your legs straighten when the mogul has passed and is no longer
under you. At lower speeds it's a little more like lowering your butt, at higher speeds it's more like pulling your feet up.
What about it? "Just because you can "copy&paste" Blake's words doesn't mean you know what is saying in what you've quoted." What you've missed is what you have not colored it red,

"Imagine hanging from your arms on a pull-up bar and pulling your knees up, instead of doing squats."

Although you've talked extensively about "La-Ti"/"pull-up the feet" but you've never really understand what it is meant, so you cannot do it, and so is your interpretation "no jumping no squatting absorption"—wrong, and you continue to use this failed argument won't take you and your skiing skills anywhere but prove yourself an idiot who doesn't know when and how to concede that you have long lost your arguments, and that's where you "can't learn, and cannot progress" comes from. You are only plagiarizing Blake's words to boast yourself, and only make a joke out of yourself.

:)
IS
taichiskiing 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-08-24, 02:25 AM   #17
Blake
滑雪瘋2級
 
註冊日期: 2012-05-21
文章: 54
預設 回覆: Blake's mogul skiing

Hi guys,

I want to apologize for my dissapearance. I just got distracted by other
things for a while and forgot all about posting.

Because of all the time that I missed, I am going to need a little time to
catch up on these topics here, so give me a couple days to look at these
threads before I write a response or two.

I'll talk to you guys soon.
Blake 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-08-26, 08:30 AM   #18
norman
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預設 回覆: Blake's mogul skiing

引用:
作者: Blake 查看文章
Hi guys,

I want to apologize for my dissapearance. I just got distracted by other
things for a while and forgot all about posting.

Because of all the time that I missed, I am going to need a little time to
catch up on these topics here, so give me a couple days to look at these
threads before I write a response or two.

I'll talk to you guys soon.
Do not your mind.

Take feel free.

And all good any thing to you.

Thank your reply.
__________________
目前總滑天數74天。繼續累積中...我想滑雪。

滑雪人
norman 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-08-27, 04:10 AM   #19
Blake
滑雪瘋2級
 
註冊日期: 2012-05-21
文章: 54
預設 回覆: Blake's mogul skiing

Quote from PKU: Don't you think it's harder to ski rounder turn on the
moguls with more edging ( engage the edge earlier ) .


Quote from PKU: I think you misunderstand my question or I didn't
make it clear enough.

I am asking about the way of skiing, not the line of one chooses. As you said, some
of the guys in the video still ski the zipper line. The main difference between you
and them is they are always trying to be on edges and you are always on flat skis.
They are skiing on arcs but you are more of a straight lines

The way those guys ski on the video is consider the technical way and they current
and former demonstrators ( members in their country's demo team to attend the
Interski events) of Japan and Austria.


I don't think I misunderstood your question, but I guess I made my answer more
complicated than it had to be. I was talking about things related to your question,
even if it wasn't a direct answer (the shape of your turns relate to your line).
Anyway, sorry about that, let me try it again...

It is NOT more difficult to make rounder turns with more edging in the moguls. I
can ski with both styles in the moguls, so I am answering with experience. I have
thought about making a video of like ten different mogul styles just to try to make
a point about this kind of thing, but I haven't made it yet because I think it'd be a
little silly to make an entire video of different styles just to prove a point for this
online argument (I have encountered this argument online many times before). The round
turns shown in the video that you posted are in my opinion how an intermediate
mogul skier would ski moguls. The PSIA (and other people) like to call this "technical
skiing" to make it sound cool, but really it's just because they can't ski any better
than that. That style is easier than skiing well in my style. If I switched to skiing
that style, skiing would become WAY easier for me. I would never have to put any
thought or effort into my skiing ever again.

On a related note though, for some skiers it might be eaiser to ski badly in my style
than to ski well in the "technical" style... Assuming a skier is working on skiing well
in both styles, my style is harder to ski well in. I know because I have experience
with both. The so called "technical" style is way easier. I ski with that style
sometimes when there are a lot of rocks in the moguls that I want to avoid or
something.

TaiChiSkiing, I really enjoy your videos. My wife and I
do standing meditation (qigong postures) pretty much daily. By the way, I broke my
pelvis too once 16 years ago. It was no fun.

On the other thread, there was a question about "how to" pull up your feet (involving
muscle groups etc)... I think it is good to not over-analyze in skiing. You just have to
know what a movement should look like and try to do it without thinking about it. I
think that that way usually gets better results than analyzing movements in depth.
It's like what they say in Star Wars: "Don't think... Feel".

I also have not missed the questions about how close Norman is to skiing like me, or
how long it should take him or whatever... I don't want to get dragged into an
argument (which is why I didn't answer these questions).... I like Norman : ) ....
But I will say this:It took me 28 years of skiing to get me to the level I am at in skiing.
If someone else can do it faster, that is great. I can't say how long it would take
someone else. Everyone is different. If anyone wants to try to ski like me with less
practice than me, I say let them try. I think that having access to different types of
terrain would be really important though. I moved to a different state 13 years ago
so that I could ski better terrain.

A few years ago I heard about a ski resort that was being built in Western China called
PingTian. What ever happened with that? Did it ever open? I heard it was supposed
to be really cool.

Here are answers to a couple other questions that were asked...

My mogul style is pretty tiring. I like putting in the extra effort, but I am usually
really out of breath after 20 or 30 turns or something. There are other styles that
are a lot less tiring. The "technical style" discussed above is less tiring. Absorbing
less deep or bouncing accross the tops of moguls like some of the world cup skiers
often do would also be a lot less tiring.

I usually view jumping onto a mogul as a failure of absorption. I pretty much never jump
onto one, but when I do, it would be for some crazy mogul that's as tall as my stomach is
high or something.

此篇文章於 2012-08-27 10:47 AM 被 Blake 編輯。
Blake 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2012-08-28, 05:32 AM   #20
Blake
滑雪瘋2級
 
註冊日期: 2012-05-21
文章: 54
預設 回覆: Blake's mogul skiing

Quote from Myself: It took me 28 years of skiing to get me to the level I
am at in skiing. If someone else can do it faster, that is great. I can't say how long it
would take someone else. Everyone is different. If anyone wants to try to ski like me
with less practice than me, I say let them try. I think that having access to different
types of terrain would be really important though. I moved to a different state 13 years
ago so that I could ski better terrain.


I wanted to add one thing to this... My wife has skied only four seasons, and now,
in several different types of snow conditions she does in fact ski like me, at the same
level. She gets a little nervous in front of the camera, so I am not sure if it's obvious in
my videos, but I see her ski as well as me pretty regularly. Sometimes it's on steep hard-
pack, or in crud, or on the groomed. She doesn't ski like me in the moguls yet, but maybe
someday she will.

She skis about 80 days each year on average. I taught her on most days that we skied
during her first 3 years, then last year a friend of mine taught her. She has improved
quickly because she's skied a lot and tried hard and had frequent instruction.

此篇文章於 2012-08-28 05:36 AM 被 Blake 編輯。
Blake 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
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