snowrider 寫:Hold on ...
If a sker's whole body is quiet, who can s/he ski dynamically??? Another question is about your definition of "body". Does it mean the torso only? Or does it inlcude arms and legs?

Taichi's video demo a good static upper and lower body and dynamic hands.

pku 寫:Man, it's quiet upper body with active lower body movement.

It looks better without your hands swinging like crazy but too bad you can't use your lower body joints.

He uses his hands and shoulder to turn like a snowboarder. I think this is considered as a beginner technique in xsia. In steeper terrain he has to over rotate or banking his turns for the same.

Just curious what are the major advantages of 'quiet upper body' and how to do this?

PSBoy 寫:Just curious what are the major advantages of 'quiet upper body' and how to do this?

By using the lower body's joint act as the shock absorber and as the turning device, maintain the fore after balance by pushing the feet fore and after, upper body can be quiet and the center of mass and get down the hill smoothly.

You won't see the WC mogulist move his upper body much even they hit those huge moguls at a fast speed.

pku 寫:By using the lower body's joint act as the shock absorber and as the turning device, maintain the fore after balance by pushing the feet fore and after, upper body can be quiet and the center of mass and get down the hill smoothly.

You won't see the WC mogulist move his upper body much even they hit those huge moguls at a fast speed.

Thanks, pku, for your explanation

I think the majority of this forum members want to see these constructive comments.

Maybe you take this opportunity to teach us which drills we should focus on for achieving quite upper body.

PSBoy 寫:Thanks, pku, for your explanation

I think the majority of this forum members want to see these constructive comments.

Maybe you take this opportunity to teach us which drills we should focus on for achieving quite upper body.

Saying is one thing but doing it is another thing. I just try to do it but not always successful

There is a driil by imaging skiing in a 4 foot tunnel and the extending can only go to the side without any up down movement. See if you can come to join us next season. I don't like doing too much drills since I don't have much on slope time. I did drill only in the PDP lesson since it's a free lesson by CSIA L4.

You got soo many Japan skiing video, you should know what to do better than me.

Yes, I got some ski videos but don't understand due to my limits (e.g. 蠢). That's why I like to discuss with you all.

PSBoy 寫:Yes, I got some ski videos but don't understand due to my limits (e.g. 蠢). That's why I like to discuss with you all.

You are just too humble.

I come across quite a bit of skier and most of them didn't get much skiing talent including me. The bad thing is we need to take a lot of time to learn but the good thing is we can keep improving although the progress seems to be slow. Continuous progression keep us in the sport.

If you are living in Hong Kong, see if you can pass the video Transform to my friend, thanks.

PSBoy 寫:Just curious what are the major advantages of 'quiet upper body' and how to do this?

A simpler explanation is that any upper body movement will affect the lower body/legs/skis.

PSBoy 寫:Thanks, pku, for your explanation

I think the majority of this forum members want to see these constructive comments.

Maybe you take this opportunity to teach us which drills we should focus on for achieving quite upper body.

As a recreation skier, my friend's upper body is pretty quiet.

YouTube - Simon Short turn down Dave Murray

代 norman 貼回覆

snowrider 寫:As I have mentioned couple times about the 5th element (the Directional Movement) of PSIA's skiing elements, it's really about the movement of the body. That how we are moving the body to the direction that we are skiing to, is the topic that Directional Movement is about.

Some beginner skiers (e.g., 若至) may mistakenly think that the advanced dynamic skiing requires bending upper body from the hip. It is a very wrong misconception. Without being able to hold the upper body in a stable and controlled state, the skier won't be able to understand the power of counter rotary movement (i.e., the power of releasing a winding spring). That's one of the reasons that I am not happy about 若至's acting like a master when he actually does not know much.

那你繼續不快樂吧，心胸狹隘，思想自限，想要快樂也難，你只看到我說的表面問題，卻不曾想過我講的真正原因為何，我說出我的看法及見解，你偏要當作我在教你，就自己覺得我總是以大師的態度說話，這不正是自以為是的想法嗎？

說到「Quiet」的上半身，你不是說了，沒影片沒真相，即然你說了，拿自己的影片證明你做到了這個要點，應該不難吧？又不是要求你在饅頭上做到，只求在有整理過的綠線或藍線上拍個小彎的動作就行了，不會連在這簡單的地形也做不到吧？

沒影片沒真相，這可是你自己說的喔，不會又想要說要用PK才能有真相吧？

我都沒說你知識缺乏，只會持上課或看書所學的來講，你真的明白其中的意義嗎？反到你這沒影片沒真像的說我只有初學者的知識，這跟太極兄講的「小知識」的意思不是沒兩樣嗎？多加幾個字是不會改變指責內容的。

我覺得你不快樂的原因是建立在自己指出Martin Heckelman的書是本狗屁，拉不下臉而不快樂的，我再幫你把你講過的話引過來再看看，「Sorry for telling you the truth ... this book is a piece of junk!」，簡單的方法，認錯這說法不就結了嗎？心胸放寬一點吧！

代 norman 貼回覆

pku 寫:As a recreation skier, my friend's upper body is pretty quiet.

YouTube - Simon Short turn down Dave Murray

原來你認可這段影片中的滑雪者這樣的動作就算是上半身是不動的呀？只是up unweighting的滑法而已，轉彎缺乏一點力量，以小彎來講，轉彎垂直軸線的半徑還有點偏大了些，這不是真正的肥彎。

YouTube - Simon Short turn down Dave Murray



我覺得我這新完成還不算真正成熟的動作也不錯呀，依上面那短片來看，看起來上半身也是不動的，而且我覺得我的轉彎比較有力量，節奏感比較好，動作比較好看。等我再多練三天就更明顯這真正的成熟動作了。

YouTube - normankiss's Channel
[media]http://www.youtube.com/user/normankiss? ... c7Yt1-fgA4[/media]

所以上半身不動，不代表真正不動，只是看起來不動，事實上還是有動作的。如果認同我的影片上半身是不動的，也可以明講囉，至少動作比上面那段好些。

代 norman 貼回覆

關於「Quiet Upper Body」，我將我個人的學習過程看法整理如下：

1. 初學者：因為不了解如何讓轉彎較有效用，所以很容易轉動肩膀來幫助轉彎，事實上上半身轉動，下半身沒有動作，所以還是一樣很難轉彎。

要點：所以指導者這時要告訴初學者，上半身不要動，嚐試單純轉動腳就行了，pivot legs就是這樣子出現在初學者的知識裏了。

2. 初學者進中級者：了解如果利用重量及轉動腳來轉彎，但是上半身還是在晃動，轉彎效果有提升，但控制不良。

要點：所以指導者這時要告訴學習的人，不要晃動上半身，嚐試做上下半身分離的動作，所以教上半身反轉的練習來改善這個問題。

3. 中級者：動作有分離了，也有點併腿滑了，轉彎控制也好多了，但上半身雖穩定多了，但還是有些晃動。

要點：指導者再次告訴學習的人，上半身要靜止，不要晃動，有穩定的上半身才能有穩定的平衡，所以要努力做到上半身不動的轉彎。

4. 中級者進入進階者：不知練多少年了，上半身好像穩定不動了，但好像很難進步上去，瓶頸卡久久，腳的動作很快了，但就是做不到像示範片那麼漂亮。雖上半身看起來穩定，但轉彎沒有力量。

要點：指導者要告訴學習的人，要利用上半身轉動來帶動下半身轉彎，怪了，這說法什麼跟以前學習的不一樣了，上半身轉動，上半身不就晃動了嗎？會練習跟不會練習，天差地遠，想通了，自然就過了，練不通，還是原來練習慣的上半身不動的要訣才是對的，那前面的學習不就見鬼去了？

5. 進階者再往上：上半身轉動了，轉彎更有力量了，但上半身轉動要什樣才算是適當，轉過頭，動作容易遲滯，不利雙腳更有彈性的動作。

要點：指導者要告訴學習的人，上半身要穩定，看起來像不動，這聽起來又像回到一開始教的，上半身不動，不是嗎？不！上半身轉動，但要極小的轉動，才能變成，少即是多，上一個要用上半身轉動是多，但這一個是看起來不動，但還是有動，只是要自己控制到感覺像不動又像是動。所以上半身是動，影片看起來像是不動。如果能體會出動即是靜，就成功了。

6. 繼續往上：動即不動作到了，但就是還差一些說不清道不明的東西，無法像影片那樣更好。

要點：指導者要告訴學習的人，調整timing，那以前的方式不就白學了，為何不一開始就調整好？不！一開始調整也沒用，動作不正確，依然是不正確，只有基礎扎實了，調整才有意義。

7. 繼續往上？等我再滑12天後再說吧。

由上可知我的想法，動即不動，對沒做到的人是不能理解的，就算會講，自己做不到，等於不知道。如果只學到不動即是靜，那也很難理解自己錯在嗎？因為最後的要求都是不動，只是悟不透兩者是有差別的，教人而自己不會，自己看不懂又不嚐試去理解學會，教出來的水準也只能反應出自己滑得水準而已，所以我以前曾聽有雪友提過，看那學生的滑法可以看得出是哪個教練教的，這即是現實。

lelo 寫:...
7. 繼續往上？等我再滑12天後再說吧。

...

Just execuse me for a second ... that is a long piece of shxt!

Norman is implying that he is almost at his level-7 爐火純青, the highest one.

lelo 寫:代 norman 貼回覆



原來你認可這段影片中的滑雪者這樣的動作就算是上半身是不動的呀？只是up unweighting的滑法而已，轉彎缺乏一點力量，以小彎來講，轉彎垂直軸線的半徑還有點偏大了些，這不是真正的肥彎。

YouTube - Simon Short turn down Dave Murray


我覺得我這新完成還不算真正成熟的動作也不錯呀，依上面那短片來看，看起來上半身也是不動的，而且我覺得我的轉彎比較有力量，節奏感比較好，動作比較好看。等我再多練三天就更明顯這真正的成熟動作了。

YouTube - normankiss's Channel

所以上半身不動，不代表真正不動，只是看起來不動，事實上還是有動作的。如果認同我的影片上半身是不動的，也可以明講囉，至少動作比上面那段好些。

Welcome back

I am not saying his upper body is 不動, is pretty quiet. Very good for a non instructor skiier in canada

You turns in that slope is not bad but your steering is not much and the sskis still slip a bit at the beginning of the turn, not too even through out the turn. As I said before, slope is gentle and snow is nice, much easier to control.

While my friend is on a steep olympic race course and snow is ok, they didn't make it icy that day.

My friend can ski most of the mountain like that, not only on groomed slope.

You need to ski at least 20 days a season for 5 seasons in order to catch up with him.

lelo 寫:... 沒影片沒真相，這可是你自己說的喔，不會又想要說要用PK才能有真相吧？

我都沒說你知識缺乏，只會持上課或看書所學的來講，你真的明白其中的意義嗎？...

I admit that I called him 弱智 was 沒風度.

About "沒影片沒真相", I don't think that I need to show you anything because I am not convincing or teaching you to believe somethng. I don't care how you ski.

I enjoy my skiing, and I know what I am doing. My freindly recommendation is only for your best interest. You don't need to take it as I don't care if you believe it or not.

One does not have be an actor to know what is bad acting.

snowrider 寫:I admit that I called him 弱智 was 沒風度.

About "沒影片沒真相", I don't think that I need to show you anything because I am not convincing or teaching you to believe somethng. I don't care how you ski.

I enjoy my skiing, and I know what I am doing. My freindly recommendation is only for your best interest. You don't need to take it as I don't care if you believe it or not.

Copare to his 分身crazy boy、you are very風度.