Natural Skiing

管他是好咖還是怪咖,只要是咖就能發言,有任何技術問題,在此討論就對啦。

版主: norman

taichiskiing
文章: 3756
註冊時間: 週六 2月 07, 2009 10:28 pm

#1 Natural Skiing

文章 taichiskiing » 週二 11月 25, 2014 4:16 am

Was 回覆: 關於吃飯,“文不對題”,might as well start over, let's see how it goes.
pku 寫:我每年仍有上 CSIA 的 PDP, 都是很有經驗的 L4 教。
I use the whole mountains as my training ground, and mother nature as my mentor. The goal of Taichi Skiing, so is the goal of my skiing, in term of techniques and tactics, is to“return to nature,” that is, to ski naturally; though what is to “ski naturally” remains quite a deep subject philosophically (e.g. Zen Skiing), but in here I'll just simply say, “to do it without your mind telling your body what to do [a particular maneuver],” or simply, “do it without deliberation,” as Blake and I have discussed, you can only achieve that (Natural Skiing) when you can “transcend”your own “style.” Next up, only the mother nature.
而且滑得比我差不表示他滑雪知識差,仍可給我意見,我不像你,我對任何人意見都會作出分析,而你郤什麼意見也聽不入耳
Of course, a L4 should have a lot of “experiences” to offer beyond those mere techniques; nevertheless, what you don't know is that you are also trapped in your system/style, so the knowledge and techniques of skiing are limited as you cannot see beyond your own system, so there are questions on your analysis.

Gravity doesn't cheat, and Natural Skiing has only “muscles and bones,”and a soul that is true to the “feeling” to deal with it:

“As the feeling developing, Tai Chi Skiing starts to turn internal. As we seek gravity internally, Tai Chi Skiing becomes more philosophical than physical. ”

http://www.taomartialarts.com/ski/ski_dance.html

No, I don't think that your L4 could give you such an advice.

You haven't proved that your opinions are worth listening, so far. For a L2, you can try harder.

Gone skiing, :)
IS



pku
文章: 3821
註冊時間: 週日 5月 30, 2010 1:02 pm

#2 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 pku » 週二 11月 25, 2014 1:17 pm

taichiskiing 寫:Was 回覆: 關於吃飯,“文不對題”,might as well start over, let's see how it goes.



I use the whole mountains as my training ground, and mother nature as my mentor. The goal of Taichi Skiing, so is the goal of my skiing, in term of techniques and tactics, is to“return to nature,” that is, to ski naturally; though what is to “ski naturally” remains quite a deep subject philosophically (e.g. Zen Skiing), but in here I'll just simply say, “to do it without your mind telling your body what to do [a particular maneuver],” or simply, “do it without deliberation,” as Blake and I have discussed, you can only achieve that (Natural Skiing) when you can “transcend”your own “style.” Next up, only the mother nature.



Of course, a L4 should have a lot of “experiences” to offer beyond those mere techniques; nevertheless, what you don't know is that you are also trapped in your system/style, so the knowledge and techniques of skiing are limited as you cannot see beyond your own system, so there are questions on your analysis.

Gravity doesn't cheat, and Natural Skiing has only “muscles and bones,”and a soul that is true to the “feeling” to deal with it:

“As the feeling developing, Tai Chi Skiing starts to turn internal. As we seek gravity internally, Tai Chi Skiing becomes more philosophical than physical. ”

http://www.taomartialarts.com/ski/ski_dance.html

No, I don't think that your L4 could give you such an advice.

You haven't proved that your opinions are worth listening, so far. For a L2, you can try harder.

Gone skiing, :)
IS
Norman 也曾經對我才出批評,我也很認真分析,不會像你一遇批評,便破口大駡

taichiskiing
文章: 3756
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#3 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 taichiskiing » 週三 11月 26, 2014 2:37 am

pku 寫:Norman 也曾經對我才出批評,我也很認真分析,不會像你一遇批評,便破口大駡
So, you rather continous bashing instead of discussing an interesting and exciting new skiing topic? No, I didn't“破口大駡”,you did that to yourself; I only stated a matter of fact.“ 小知小人”,you are what you do. And as a L2, if you “really” take norman's words seriously, it tells two things: either you “don't”know how to do analysis, or you are a mediocre “鄉愿”.

And the saga continues, :)
IS

pku
文章: 3821
註冊時間: 週日 5月 30, 2010 1:02 pm

#4 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 pku » 週三 11月 26, 2014 4:10 am

taichiskiing 寫:So, you rather continous bashing instead of discussing an interesting and exciting new skiing topic? No, I didn't“破口大駡”,you did that to yourself; I only stated a matter of fact.“ 小知小人”,you are what you do. And as a L2, if you “really” take norman's words seriously, it tells two things: either you “don't”know how to do analysis, or you are a mediocre “鄉愿”.

And the saga continues, :)
IS
It's hard to define what's natural.

Stand upright, hands down is very natural for most people but is not good in skiing.

The movement of the following guy is very natural but for most people doing that is not natural.


pku
文章: 3821
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#5 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 pku » 週三 11月 26, 2014 4:20 am

taichiskiing 寫:So, you rather continous bashing instead of discussing an interesting and exciting new skiing topic? No, I didn't“破口大駡”,you did that to yourself; I only stated a matter of fact.“ 小知小人”,you are what you do. And as a L2, if you “really” take norman's words seriously, it tells two things: either you “don't”know how to do analysis, or you are a mediocre “鄉愿”.

And the saga continues, :)
IS
This kind of skiing looks really aggressive. I don't know if many people think this is natural but I believe this is strong skiing.


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snowrider
文章: 1329
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#6 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 snowrider » 週三 11月 26, 2014 1:02 pm

:face (330):
pku 寫:It's hard to define what's natural.

Stand upright, hands down is very natural for most people but is not good in skiing.

The movement of the following guy is very natural but for most people doing that is not natural.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3QgClBa49g

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snowrider
文章: 1329
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#7 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 snowrider » 週三 11月 26, 2014 1:41 pm

Very strong skier! :face (330):
pku 寫:This kind of skiing looks really aggressive. I don't know if many people think this is natural but I believe this is strong skiing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnsgNaE8ssY

taichiskiing
文章: 3756
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#8 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 taichiskiing » 週四 11月 27, 2014 3:37 am

pku 寫:It's hard to define what's natural.
For dealing with gravity, the most efficient form is water flows, so high level skiers ski like water flows, and their bodies respond to the terrain changes “naturally,” that is, without mind to tell them what to do, and that's my preliminary definition.
Stand upright, hands down is very natural for most people but is not good in skiing.

The movement of the following guy is very natural but for most people doing that is not natural.
His skiing is quite fluent, but he is in “teaching” and “demo”mode, so his skiing shows a “mindful skiing.”

Silver Star's Norman Kreutz's Ski Tip - YouTube


pku 寫:This kind of skiing looks really aggressive. I don't know if many people think this is natural but I believe this is strong skiing.
Yes, their skiing is too aggressive for general [recreational] skiers. They themselves may ski “naturally,”but they have an one-track mind—going fastest as they can—so, their skiing is not really “natural”neither.

스키강좌 - 사토 히사야의 master of ski technique sato2.avi - YouTube



Run across this clip from youtube, I concur everything he, Lito Tejada-Flores, said in there, and his bump skiing and explanations are much better than I, so I differ to his clip. And for you aspired skiers, I really recommend you to get a hardcopy DVD of this video to study it well, and for your liberary and future reference. (note: He has more “private Lessons” floating on youtube, and I don't know the guy, just enjoy his good lesson and his“natural skiing.”By the way, I think the film speed is in slow motion at half of the normal speed.)

A private Ski Lesson 2 with Lito Tejada-Flores 2. Bumps & powder - YouTube



:)
IS

pku
文章: 3821
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#9 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 pku » 週五 11月 28, 2014 3:53 am

taichiskiing 寫:For dealing with gravity, the most efficient form is water flows, so high level skiers ski like water flows, and their bodies respond to the terrain changes “naturally,” that is, without mind to tell them what to do, and that's my preliminary definition.



His skiing is quite fluent, but he is in “teaching” and “demo”mode, so his skiing shows a “mindful skiing.”

Silver Star's Norman Kreutz's Ski Tip - YouTube




Yes, their skiing is too aggressive for general [recreational] skiers. They themselves may ski “naturally,”but they have an one-track mind—going fastest as they can—so, their skiing is not really “natural”neither.

스키강좌 - 사토 히사야의 master of ski technique sato2.avi - YouTube


Run across this clip from youtube, I concur everything he, Lito Tejada-Flores, said in there, and his bump skiing and explanations are much better than I, so I differ to his clip. And for you aspired skiers, I really recommend you to get a hardcopy DVD of this video to study it well, and for your liberary and future reference. (note: He has more “private Lessons” floating on youtube, and I don't know the guy, just enjoy his good lesson and his“natural skiing.”By the way, I think the film speed is in slow motion at half of the normal speed.)

A private Ski Lesson 2 with Lito Tejada-Flores 2. Bumps & powder - YouTube


:)
IS
For me, skiing is a sport of speed so it's natural for anyone wants to ski fast.

As you mention about gravity and water, water will flow down a mountain in a very direct line.

To be able to ski that line, it's not natural for most of the people but it's natural for most skier not to ski that line. I don't really like to use the term " Natural Skiing "


I really like this guy's skiing although he may not consider as one of the best guy of the CSIA.

Ski Lessons of Legend - YouTube

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snowrider
文章: 1329
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#10 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 snowrider » 週五 11月 28, 2014 10:41 am

That vidio shows a very good skier!
:face (330):
pku 寫:For me, skiing is a sport of speed so it's natural for anyone wants to ski fast.

As you mention about gravity and water, water will flow down a mountain in a very direct line.

To be able to ski that line, it's not natural for most of the people but it's natural for most skier not to ski that line. I don't really like to use the term " Natural Skiing "


I really like this guy's skiing although he may not consider as one of the best guy of the CSIA.

Ski Lessons of Legend - YouTube

pku
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#11 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 pku » 週五 11月 28, 2014 1:18 pm

snowrider 寫:That vidio shows a very good skier!
:face (330):
I just got the CSIA magazine and found out this guy is in the CSIA high performance team.

45 L4 in the team and 10 will be selected for the CSIA demo team.

taichiskiing
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#12 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 taichiskiing » 週六 11月 29, 2014 12:11 am

pku 寫:For me, skiing is a sport of speed so it's natural for anyone wants to ski fast.
Not really, as skiing is a sport of gravity, speed is only a result of “efficient/good skiing.”Skiing fast may be thrilling, but just being fast is not necessarily good skiing.
As you mention about gravity and water, water will flow down a mountain in a very direct line.
Not really, water“flow down a mountain in a very direct line” only happens on “groomed”(smooth) slopes, but in all mountain skiing environments, the slopes seldom that smooth and level. And when the water is back up, it will flow over the obstacles in any which way.
To be able to ski that line, it's not natural for most of the people but it's natural for most skier not to ski that line. I don't really like to use the term " Natural Skiing "

I really like this guy's skiing although he may not consider as one of the best guy of the CSIA.
The above paragraph was to say there are many many “lines” on all mountains skiing; your fastest speed down on “one” line's skiing for “good skiing” is too narrow a concept. Many experts enjoy skiing for simple pleasure of “balanced”“perfect turns,”smooth skiing and speed are only by-products, “natural skiing” is more versatile.

A private Ski Lesson 3 with Lito Tejada-Flores: Carved skies - YouTube



Ski Lessons of Legend - YouTube



His skiing—“turn skiing”—though aggressive, but too “ monotone” for me.

:)
IS

pku
文章: 3821
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#13 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 pku » 週六 11月 29, 2014 2:16 am

taichiskiing 寫:Not really, as skiing is a sport of gravity, speed is only a result of “efficient/good skiing.”Skiing fast may be thrilling, but just being fast is not necessarily good skiing.



Not really, water“flow down a mountain in a very direct line” only happens on “groomed”(smooth) slopes, but in all mountain skiing environments, the slopes seldom that smooth and level. And when the water is back up, it will flow over the obstacles in any which way.



The above paragraph was to say there are many many “lines” on all mountains skiing; your fastest speed down on “one” line's skiing for “good skiing” is too narrow a concept. Many experts enjoy skiing for simple pleasure of “balanced”“perfect turns,”smooth skiing and speed are only by-products, “natural skiing” is more versatile.

A private Ski Lesson 3 with Lito Tejada-Flores: Carved skies - YouTube


Ski Lessons of Legend - YouTube


His skiing—“turn skiing”—though aggressive, but too “ monotone” for me.

:)
IS
If one can ski fast than most of the people on everything, one most be a very good skier.

To certain extend, speed is a main criteria to distinguish a better skier. That's why you keep saying that I can't do less time than you did on the Gunbarrel. You also said I can't keep up with you.

The most natural line should be the line water flow down the mountain. You can't ski this line on most of the places on the mountain, right. What is natural, then. That;s why I don't like using this term natural.

The guy in my video ski few different lines on the video and most lines he skied is what you cannot ski since your skiing technique is uite limited. Why don't you don't confess your skiing is not versatile.

taichiskiing
文章: 3756
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#14 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 taichiskiing » 週六 11月 29, 2014 1:04 pm

pku 寫:If one can ski fast than most of the people on everything, one most be a very good skier.
A good skier, maybe, but not necessarily good technique, when compares to “balanced perfect turn.”
To certain extend, speed is a main criteria to distinguish a better skier. That's why you keep saying that I can't do less time than you did on the Gunbarrel. You also said I can't keep up with you.
Which didn't contradicts what I have said, “[fast] speed is a by-product of effient/good skiing.”You may have a faster skiing speed on mugols, but if you have to rest for another five minutes to recuperate your strength after every five turns, you are not skiing “efficiently,”and you cannot keep up with me for the whole run. When you can keep up with me, your “efficiency,”not speed, is what makes you a “good skier.”
The most natural line should be the line water flow down the mountain. You can't ski this line on most of the places on the mountain, right. What is natural, then. That;s why I don't like using this term natural.
No, we human cannot really ski the water flow lines, different medium, the “natural” in this content is referring to the muscles movements—the internal force, or 氣—move like water flows (no jerky movements).
The guy in my video ski few different lines on the video and most lines he skied is what you cannot ski since your skiing technique is uite limited. Why don't you don't confess your skiing is not versatile.
He may not ski my lines neither, and you may ask your question again when you can keep up with us, of course, by then you should have found your answer already.

Flatboarding/Line-skiing: powder skiing trees, Dipper line, Heavenly - YouTube



:)
IS

pku
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#15 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 pku » 週六 11月 29, 2014 2:23 pm

taichiskiing 寫:A good skier, maybe, but not necessarily good technique, when compares to “balanced perfect turn.”



Which didn't contradicts what I have said, “[fast] speed is a by-product of effient/good skiing.”You may have a faster skiing speed on mugols, but if you have to rest for another five minutes to recuperate your strength after every five turns, you are not skiing “efficiently,”and you cannot keep up with me for the whole run. When you can keep up with me, your “efficiency,”not speed, is what makes you a “good skier.”



No, we human cannot really ski the water flow lines, different medium, the “natural” in this content is referring to the muscles movements—the internal force, or 氣—move like water flows (no jerky movements).



He may not ski my lines neither, and you may ask your question again when you can keep up with us, of course, by then you should have found your answer already.

Flatboarding/Line-skiing: powder skiing trees, Dipper line, Heavenly - YouTube


:)
IS
A really good skier can ski fast because he can balance well and make efficient turn. Making TK most outcome from the energy he used.

I agree speed is the by product of good skiing technique. With good skiing technique and efficient turning , effortless skiing achieved so not only one can ski fast, one also won't get tired . Especially Heavenly is only 2/3 of the vertical of Whistler. It's pretty easy to ski non stop from people like us to ski top to bottom non stop.

The way you ski down in the video is like 遊花園,That's no way the guy in the video to keep up with the CSIA guy I posted

pku
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#16 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 pku » 週六 11月 29, 2014 2:36 pm

taichiskiing 寫:Not really, as skiing is a sport of gravity, speed is only a result of “efficient/good skiing.”Skiing fast may be thrilling, but just being fast is not necessarily good skiing.



Not really, water“flow down a mountain in a very direct line” only happens on “groomed”(smooth) slopes, but in all mountain skiing environments, the slopes seldom that smooth and level. And when the water is back up, it will flow over the obstacles in any which way.



The above paragraph was to say there are many many “lines” on all mountains skiing; your fastest speed down on “one” line's skiing for “good skiing” is too narrow a concept. Many experts enjoy skiing for simple pleasure of “balanced”“perfect turns,”smooth skiing and speed are only by-products, “natural skiing” is more versatile.

A private Ski Lesson 3 with Lito Tejada-Flores: Carved skies - YouTube


Ski Lessons of Legend - YouTube


His skiing—“turn skiing”—though aggressive, but too “ monotone” for me.

:)
IS
The direct line is not always the fall line. Since you can't turn fast on steep, you won't be able to choose the fast line.

taichiskiing
文章: 3756
註冊時間: 週六 2月 07, 2009 10:28 pm

#17 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 taichiskiing » 週六 11月 29, 2014 11:31 pm

pku 寫:A really good skier can ski fast because he can balance well and make efficient turn. Making TK most outcome from the energy he used.
That's true; nevertheless, too many turns will slow he down, so “turn skiing”is slower than “line skiing.”
I agree speed is the by product of good skiing technique. With good skiing technique and efficient turning , effortless skiing achieved so not only one can ski fast, one also won't get tired . Especially Heavenly is only 2/3 of the vertical of Whistler. It's pretty easy to ski non stop from people like us to ski top to bottom non stop.
You should be able to ski Gunbarrel TTB, given that you have 25 years of skiing experience; nevertheless, the challenge that you still have to meet, can you ski “2/3 of the vertical of Whistler”non-stop?
The way you ski down in the video is like 遊花園,That's no way the guy in the video to keep up with the CSIA guy I posted
I doubt that, here's the challenge,

Advanced skiing: Wrong Edge Turns - YouTube



And you don't have to ski fast to be an expert skier.

A private Ski Lesson 3 with Lito Tejada-Flores: Carved skies - YouTube



[By the way, lelo, if you reading this, your question about how to use your “skiing machine” is in this clip, @14:05~15:05, good luck.]
pku 寫:The direct line is not always the fall line. Since you can't turn fast on steep, you won't be able to choose the fast line.
There are no line faster than my line on this slope.

Taichi Skiing/Flatboarding: Wedeln - YouTube



:)
IS

pku
文章: 3821
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#18 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 pku » 週日 11月 30, 2014 4:07 am

taichiskiing 寫:That's true; nevertheless, too many turns will slow he down, so “turn skiing”is slower than “line skiing.”



You should be able to ski Gunbarrel TTB, given that you have 25 years of skiing experience; nevertheless, the challenge that you still have to meet, can you ski “2/3 of the vertical of Whistler”non-stop?



I doubt that, here's the challenge,

Advanced skiing: Wrong Edge Turns - YouTube


And you don't have to ski fast to be an expert skier.

A private Ski Lesson 3 with Lito Tejada-Flores: Carved skies - YouTube


[By the way, lelo, if you reading this, your question about how to use your “skiing machine” is in this clip, @14:05~15:05, good luck.]



There are no line faster than my line on this slope.

Taichi Skiing/Flatboarding: Wedeln - YouTube


:)
IS
See how you ski the steep, traverse to slow down, how can you ski fast. Turning can control speed and ski a more direct line down. On gentler slope, we just make big carve turn and we can ski fast.

I haven't ski that long. it's my 22nd season only. Sking from Roundhouse to Whistler village is more than 2/3 vertical of Whistler and we always do it when we see the line up at those chaair lifts is huge on mid mountain.

This kind of turn is more or less an exercise on groom slope. I heard from Snowrider you and him seldom ski the bumps. You should should take a video of how he ski the bumps.

By the way, apple to apple. I am disgusing with you using our CSIA trainer since he skis full time like you and your friend. To make that kind of turn is too easy for him.

To certain extend, an expert skier should be able to ski pretty fast.

The line you are taking is not straight enough to be the fastest.

taichiskiing
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#19 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 taichiskiing » 週日 11月 30, 2014 9:57 am

pku 寫:See how you ski the steep, traverse to slow down, how can you ski fast. Turning can control speed and ski a more direct line down. On gentler slope, we just make big carve turn and we can ski fast.
To ski the steep, you have to “turn,” and if you have to turn, you cannot ski a “more direct line”; to traverse the steep—line skiing—skiing like driving on a mountain road, where road turns and the car turns less, so the skiing speed can be kept quite high. On the gentler slope, line skiing's “long radius turn,”(ski the great circle line,) goes almost straight down. Here's your challenge.

Taichi Skiing/Flatboarding: High Five, Heavenly - YouTube


I haven't ski that long. it's my 22nd season only. Sking from Roundhouse to Whistler village is more than 2/3 vertical of Whistler and we always do it when we see the line up at those chaair lifts is huge on mid mountain.
22 years of skiing is long enough, it only took me 10 years of skiing to “cook” down (hot) the gunbarrel non-stop. Are you talking about do TTB “form Roundhouse to Whistler village”? it sounds like a cat-track, that’s a different story from TTB mogul skiing.
This kind of turn is more or less an exercise on groom slope. I heard from Snowrider you and him seldom ski the bumps. You should should take a video of how he ski the bumps.
My friend seldom does moguls, (“there's no need to waste time on moguls when there's excellent tree skiing to be had,”) but I saw he did the most “graceful” mogul skiing I've ever seen, and he skis moguls not worst (actually better) than I do.
By the way, apple to apple. I am disgusing with you using our CSIA trainer since he skis full time like you and your friend. To make that kind of turn is too easy for him.
No, the skiing “contents”is not just making “turns”; if you have to think about how to turn, you may not be as a good skier as you think. When my friend and I ski together, we don't talk about how to turn, or how to ski for that matter, but where to go, and he usually leads a very sneaky route.

All-mountain Skiing: free skiing - YouTube


To certain extend, an expert skier should be able to ski pretty fast.

The line you are taking is not straight enough to be the fastest.
You need to retune your MA training.

:)
IS

pku
文章: 3821
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#20 回覆: Natural Skiing

文章 pku » 週日 11月 30, 2014 12:59 pm

taichiskiing 寫:To ski the steep, you have to “turn,” and if you have to turn, you cannot ski a “more direct line”; to traverse the steep—line skiing—skiing like driving on a mountain road, where road turns and the car turns less, so the skiing speed can be kept quite high. On the gentler slope, line skiing's “long radius turn,”(ski the great circle line,) goes almost straight down. Here's your challenge.

Taichi Skiing/Flatboarding: High Five, Heavenly - YouTube




22 years of skiing is long enough, it only took me 10 years of skiing to “cook” down (hot) the gunbarrel non-stop. Are you talking about do TTB “form Roundhouse to Whistler village”? it sounds like a cat-track, that’s a different story from TTB mogul skiing.



My friend seldom does moguls, (“there's no need to waste time on moguls when there's excellent tree skiing to be had,”) but I saw he did the most “graceful” mogul skiing I've ever seen, and he skis moguls not worst (actually better) than I do.



No, the skiing “contents”is not just making “turns”; if you have to think about how to turn, you may not be as a good skier as you think. When my friend and I ski together, we don't talk about how to turn, or how to ski for that matter, but where to go, and he usually leads a very sneaky route.

All-mountain Skiing: free skiing - YouTube




You need to retune your MA training.

:)
IS
you wrote such a long paragraph saying that you cannot turn properly so you need to traverse the hill when it's steep. You traverse and make a the steep run become a cat track. That's clear enough that you can only ski cat track kind of runs.

You should study the trail map of Whistler so you can have a better understanding of the runs from Round House to Village.

As I said, I am a weekend skier while you are a full time skier. What a big difference. The days of skiing that you ski in 10 years is more than I skied in 22 years.

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